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Tweak says, "Merry Cruisemas!"

Envinyatar (envinyatar15) wrote,
@ 2008-01-22 14:11:00

Entry tags:

exchanges, writing

It's one of these ~~months~~ days when I hate not being a native English speaker with a passion. You know, writing is one of the few things in my life where I've actually developed any ambition; and it's one of the few things where I don't even have the ounce of a chance to come close to the level I'd love to achieve.

I hate not understanding English punctuation. I hate not being able to differentiate between German syntax and English syntax enough to pull off a writing style that seems natural both to me and an English-speaking reader. I hate only having brain space for so much vocabulary. I hate writing sex scenes because I'm still not sure whether the words I'm choosing flow with the mood or... not. I hate making the same stupid mistakes over and over. I hate not being able to post a teeny tiny something without having it beta'd. And to a degree I hate having corrupted my German writing by my English writing.

No, I'm not really all that frustrated about the writing itself, this is just something that has been brewing for a long time - I am proud of what I've accomplished in a different language so far. BUT.

On a more positive note I'm home sick the entire week, which means my wizard_love fic actually has a chance of being finished before the deadline. Whee.

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	sivullinen 2008-01-22 05:50 pm UTC (link)
	YES. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	envinyatar15 2008-01-22 10:22 pm UTC (link)
	(I'm all up to date with 100quills now and back to working. Hope that's okay? :/ ) Nice to hear I'm not the only one being all frustrated about such issues... ^_^ (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	sivullinen 2008-01-23 09:45 am UTC (link)
	(Great :D And don't worry about the hiatus you took!) I think there is a reason why all the writer!BNFs are native speakers... (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

shiny_crystal
2008-01-23 02:26 pm UTC (link)

Hi, I just saw this post scrolling down and wanted to point out that at least in Harry/Draco, this is not the case ;) From the top of my head I know at least two or three of the people who I'd say are pretty popular in fandom and are not native speakers of English, so no need to be discouraged ;)
Although I think you have to live in an English-speaking country for some time to develop a true feeling for the language, so perhaps this, rather than being a native-speaker, would be helpful (I'm not sure whether all of the people I'm thinking of have lived in an English-speaking country, though).
Sorry to pipe up like this, it's my inner linguist speaking and since she usually gets the better of me, this comment had to be written ;)

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	envinyatar15 2008-01-23 02:35 pm UTC (link)
	Yeah, but the great majority of the writer!BNFs are natives, and methinks you'll have to really pay a lot of attention to the language to actually develop a feeling for it if you're not a native. And by far not every person who lives in a different country really develops a feeling for the language, or am I wrong? That's my impression, at least. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

shiny_crystal
2008-01-23 03:02 pm UTC (link)

Well, of course that's true. But I don't see how our two observations contradict each other. I mean, if you are a writer and take this activity in the least bit seriously, you ARE paying A LOT of attention to language because that's the single most important thing you're working with (yes, there's plot and character and stuff, but still, language is the heart of everything).
Sure, I've also seen people return from abroad and their English or whatever language they spoke there hadn't improved a bit. Or wasn't existent in the first place (e.g. Erasmus students - we've met some in Prague and most - not all! - of them didn't know a single word of Czech, nor did they seem interested in learning it). Personally, I think that's a shame and a waste, but that's their individual choice. I do realize that not everyone can be as obsessed with language as me ;)
But hell, there are even people who don't have a clue about their mother tongue. I remember at least two occasions in which my teacher asked, "Could you please give me a sentence with Futur II?" and the class collectively went, "What?". And don't even let me start on the correct use of Konjunktiv. This makes me cringe, but well, I've been known to be a grammar-obsessed freak. Most people don't give a damn about proper Konjunktiv. I guess, these are the people who won't improve their English much abroad because they pay attention to different things. But! For writers, I suppose, language is one of the most important things ever. And if that's not true ... I'll go hide in my corner and cry or something.

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	envinyatar15 2008-01-23 03:08 pm UTC (link)
	That I'll accept - because that's what I was thinking. (Reply to this) (Parent)

shiny_crystal
2008-01-22 08:25 pm UTC (link)

*offers heaps of mental support*
You might not believe that, but I know what you mean. It's the reason I still write most of my fiction in German with the exception of short steam-of-consciousness thingies because they flow. Just about.
The one thing I'll never truly understand is that you don't like writing in German (anymore).
Anyways ... you REALLY can be proud of what you have accomplished - it's hard to learn a foreign language to such an extent to even be able to use it as freely as you can (and yes, you can. I was in London with you, I can judge that). It's time-consuming and never-ending and if you don't pay attention to it more or less every day, it fades away. I mean, I can see my English fading now that I don't live in England anymore and it's scaring me. Like hell. So we just ... keep learning, I guess. *eyes visit to London in the summer*

I've come to the conclusion it's impossible to understand English punctuation. To a degree, I'm not sure the English understand it, either.

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	envinyatar15 2008-01-22 10:36 pm UTC (link)
	Well, to a degree Tintenherz & sequels have given me back a certain love for German, so... ATM I don't understand my decision for English so much either. Heh. Thank you huggles And that is good to know. I'm under the same impression, but I didn't know whether that was misleading or not^^ (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

shiny_crystal
2008-01-23 02:29 pm UTC (link)

Na dann ein großes YAY für Tintenherz ;) Hast du Tintentod denn auch schon durch? Freut mich jedenfalls, zu hören, dass du auch wieder was für Deutsch übrig hast ... es ist schließlich auch eine wundervolle und poetische Sprache :)

Most English people know as much about their own language as we know about German. Or less. You should've been in my French class in England. Grammar, what's that, something edible? The argument, 'But it works that way in English, too!' just gets you confused looks, I swear. Even from our A* student, native-speaker English.

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	envinyatar15 2008-01-23 02:35 pm UTC (link)
	Nee, ich muss ja mein Tintentod an Amazon zurückschicken, weil's kaputt ist. Meh. Aber Deutsch ist trotz allem unsexy ;) (Reply to this) (Parent)

das_dingsi
2008-01-23 01:24 pm UTC (link)

*blinzel*

Das hilft Dir jetzt überhaupt nicht, aber Du bist ca. der 193. Fall einer LJ- oder IJ-Fandom-Person, die nicht Englisch-Muttersprachler ist, wo ich aber immer dachte, sie wäre es.

(U-Boot-Deutsche.)

Zugegeben, bei Dir steht's zumindest in der Info. Trotzdem bin ich immer wieder überrascht.

Bei mir ist es übrigens umgekehrt: ich kann keine Fic auf deutsch schreiben, und manchmal schäme ich mich ein bißchen dafür. Schlimm wird's, wenn ich vor mich hin denke, ins Englische rüberrutsche und mir das deutsche Wort für etwas nicht einfällt. Ich bin zu sehr dran gewöhnt, vermute ich mal. Grmpf.

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envinyatar15
2008-01-23 01:48 pm UTC (link)

Heh, naja, im Fandom wird man ja praktisch dazu gezwungen, ins Englische zu rutschen. Und ja, ich find's auch immer wieder lustig, zu sehen, wer denn nicht Englisch-Muttersprachler ist. Wie viele OMG!-Erlebnisse dieser Art es schon gegeben hat, will ich auch nicht wissen ^_^

Ich kann auch nicht auf Deutsch schreiben! So rein gar nich. Konversation betreiben ist mittlerweile auch schon leicht merkwürdig - ich bin immer glücklich über RL-Freunde, die gut Englisch sprechen, wo ich dann also auch meinem Halbdeutsch, Halbenglisch freien Lauf lassen kann. OMG, sogar meine Zeichensetzung und Groß-/Kleinschreibung im Deutschen ist GAR NICHT mehr wie sie mal war - und auf meine Rechtschreibung war ich mal stolz :( Aber naja, die Dinge sind jetzt wohl nicht mehr zu ändern - und da ich auch gern mal adult-rated stuff schreibe, werd ich wohl auch nicht anfangen, mein Deutsch zu pflegen. Deutsch kann echt unsexy sein! ;)

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zebraspots05
2008-01-24 02:07 am UTC (link)

I have a confession to make: I don't understand punctuation either. I have two reference books under my desks and one good website bookmarked that I check all the time. And I took three English courses in University, which I had marks of 80% or better.

Now, does that say something about me, or about the school system over here? Or about our language?

(is there a specific thing you don't understand that I can clarify?)

What does BNF mean?

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